I remember sitting as a child in my family’s Southern Baptist Church while the preacher interpreted Bible verses to justify segregation and discrimination of African-Americans and how God was fine with the way things were.
I remember sitting in a congregation while the preacher quoted Scripture to prove that Catholics should never be elected president of the United States because they engaged in idolatry.
I remember sitting in another Southern Baptist church as the minister railed about the stain on the Jewish people because they had murdered Jesus and how they will go to hell if they don’t convert to Christianity.
I remember multiple sermons using the Bible to maintain second class status for women in Southern Baptist Church.
Copernicus Mean Anything to You?
So, it’s absolutely no surprise that people are today sitting in the congregation at Bellevue Baptist Church listening to yet another Southern Baptist preacher, Rev. Steve Gaines, using his Bible as a hammer to stand on the side of discrimination and inequality.
We predict confidently that there will be a time when Mr. Gaines is viewed with as much disbelief as we now view Father Coughlan’s hate-filled sermons of the 1930s. As Mr. Gaines obfuscates the meaning of Scripture and parses words to support his pre-existing prejudices, he joins other false prophets that were proven over time to be absolutely wrong in their theology.
History has a way of overtaking religious-oriented bigotry, from the Inquisition to the crusades, from bloody conversions to Christianity and slavery, and from anti-Semitism to Copernicus. In other words, the Bible accepts things, including sexual behaviors, that we condemn today and we accept behaviors that it condemns.
The Bible is not a science book. It is not a history book. It is not a human sexuality book. It is a sacred book. It seems at times that those who tell us repeatedly that they have the most faith are the ones with the least, and because of it, they need everything in the Bible to be unquestioned, such as the age of the earth or the origins of humankind.
Tea Party Theology
It’s a Tea Party theology that treats the Bible as if the interpretation of its verses hasn’t changed drastically over time nor that the culture and context of the time when it was written aren’t relevant in understanding them. In the Pew Forum on Religion and Public Life, people were asked 32 questions. Scoring highest were atheists and agnostics who averaged 20.9 correct answers. Jews averaged 20.5 and Mormons 20.3. Protestants meanwhile averaged only 16.
Most Christians have no historical context of how women were marginalized centuries after Christ in decisions that were more political than theological. Most Christians don’t know that centuries after the books of the New Testament were written, church councils were being called to debate and decide whether Jesus was divine and if He was, to define the nature of that divinity. There’s also the question of translations into English and decisions about what books would be included in the official canon.
As a result, it’s unsurprising that so many believers accept interpretations of the Bible with little understanding of their own or try to understand their meanings in keeping with the original Hebrew or Greek and within the context of their times as Israelites wandered and struggled for survival. It was a time when strong conformity was needed because there were no prisons for a nomadic people, and as a result, death was the penalty of choice, for crimes ranging from murder, adultery, masturbation, cursing a parent, and to a false claim of a woman’s virginity at the time of marriage.
Curiously, the anti-gay Gospel preachers manage to ignore all of these inconvenient teachings – when’s the last time you heard a sermon against adultery or divorce? – and obsess on the sexuality of a minority among us. They take the story of Sodom and totally misstate the reasons for Sodom’s destruction, which is mostly about its citizens’ unwillingness to help the poor and those in need. In ignoring the full context, many preachers engage in the worst kind of bigotry – the kind that objectifies and vilifies a subgroup in exchange for their special feelings of being the “real” Christians.
Methinks He Protests Too Much
The strangest thing about this fixation on other people’s sexuality is that it relies heavily on a questionable interpretation of a handful of verses that have other interpretations when the culture of the time is taken into account. Yes, there are other more reasoned explanations when context, culture, etymology are taken into account. More to the point, Christians are supposed to believe that Jesus’ gospel of love overrode the Old Testament, a fact often ignored by Mr. Gaines and others.
If homosexuality was a prime concern of the time, it’s strange that Jesus said nothing about it nor did the Jewish prophets, and while people like Mr. Gaines obsess on six or seven verses in one million to justify their political positions, none of these verses refer to same-sex orientation as it is today.
There are many people of good faith and deep faith who are wrestling with the angels of their nature and what preachers are telling them the Bible said. Some feel that while they have no personal objections to gay relationships, they see the Bible as unyielding and unequivocal. And yet, Christianity celebrates heroes who changed their minds about the meaning of various Bible verses, and even if we believe that the Bible is infallible, it’s still dangerous to assume that humans are too as they interpret what it says.
After all, the Bible says that it’s acceptable for a man to have sex with a prostitute but not for a woman to do it. There’s also the small matter of polygamy, concubines, sex with slaves, marriage of girls at an age that Warren Jeffs would have envied, and women as property.
Holy Ghost
Christians are strong believers in the power of the Holy Spirit to move through history. Perhaps it moves most effectively in providing us with the science to illuminate when teachings from the ancient world are no longer relevant to us today or require new interpretation because they were written for a particular time and place. That’s why there are numerous verses of the Bible that even Mr. Gaines no longer considers appropriate to follow.
It’s confusing to us that so many fundamentalist Christian officials are transfixed by homosexuality while ignoring the Bible’s many admonitions for helping the poor. As for the much-quoted Leviticus code, it was a code for a particular time and place. It includes much of the sexual laws we ignore today but rather than focus on this broad fact, Mr. Gaines picks out a few words and amplifies them far beyond their actual meaning or importance.
More and more, we are finally leaving an untenable “don’t ask, don’t tell” world. In times of great change in history, there is often a brand of extremism that does everything possible to resist and to attack the symbols of that change. Gays are a convenient stalking horse for the fear of change, but there is no way that we should remain quiet in the midst of strident religious scapegoating of our homosexual neighbors, friends, and family members who are special blessings from God in our lives and in our city.
If people want to quote verses, how about the warnings about judging others?
Well done!
Saint “Even” Stephen, a man who was filled with faith and the Holy Spirit, shudders to think that Gaines shares his name.
That picture was taken in Knoxville.
Yes, we know about the photo. We’re aware of the angst that it gives some people. We are using it as a metaphor for the dilemma that some of us face in addressing some denominations’ view on this question. The path often leads away from religion sadly.
If homosexual sodomites and others don’t understand what the Christian bible (and other world religions) state about about certain behavior, then they just need to re-read it.
Anonymous: Thanks for eloquently proving the entire point of this post. You haven’t even done enough reading to understand the story of Sodom and the disconnect with homosexuality before you toss out a word that you clearly intend to be hurtful…very Christianlike behavior.
Anonymous, please reread your bible. Sodom was burned because her privileged daughters wouldn’t share with the poor.
I think our resident fake rabbi knows full well that SC is right about this, he’s just not yet ready to come out of the closet with it.
But really, for me the issue is this: if Bellevue Baptist wants to start sticking its 501(c)3 nose under the partisan political tent, then it should give up its 501(c)3 status. There is no reason we should be required to make civil law according to what someone’s interpretation of their holy book is. And unless Shekel wants to start observing ALL of the pronouncements of the OT, stop cherrypicking, hypocrite.
I think you have posted similar things here before. What is the purpose of your rant above other than to display your displeasure of Southern Baptists? You apparently have decided that the denomination you grew up in is a horrible one and no one should be one, especially a more fundamentalist one like Gaines.
I believe that SCM is going downhill when it abandons public issues and gets into religion bashing.
If you don’t like Gaines’ position on the non discrimination ordinance, then why not just say so instead of going into a diatribe on why Southern Baptist theology is wrong.
for the record, I am not a Southern Baptist, I am undecided about the ordinance, and I scored 100% on the Pew Survey test.
I think the point is to provoke a discussion by pointing out that the Bible has been misued for as long as it has been around to justify horrible treatment of various people, and to point out that this is what Mr. Gaines is doing now. It’s not religion bashing to point out that religion has been used to bash for centuries.
We’re pointing out that the Southern Baptist Convention has a history of being on the exclusionary side of Christianity, and it’s based on personal experience, not supposition. It doesn’t sound like you were or are a Baptist so you don’t have anything but supposition.
Your comment is a little like the “class warfare” rhetoric we hear today. Attacking the phrase is a way to keep people from identifying it when that’s exactly what’s happening.
And if you thought this is a rant, maybe Harry Truman’s quote applies to you: I don’t give ’em hell, I just tell the truth and they think it’s hell.
As for my view of the Southern Baptists, I was always proud that it was Baptist churches that pioneered the idea of separation of church and state and in the midst of being badly persecuted rejected the idea that government and religion should be synonymous. Somewhere along the line, it just ran off track in its core principles.
I’ll add, and I’ve said this before: just like the Southern Baptists apologized for slavery and segregation and supporting Jim Crow about 100 years after the fact, in another 100 years, they’ll be apologizing for their ridiculous obsession against gay people. The SBC; dragging their feet since 1865.
I member of my church published a book titled “everything Jesus said about homosexuality” It was blank!
Let’s see:
Leviticus says homosexuality is an abomination. Check.
It also says not to eat the pig. Check. This is why you’ll never find barbeque where Christians gather.
It also says not to touch the skin of the pig. Check. There is, thus, a Biblical reason why Christians won’t watch football.
Are we cherry-picking here?
I will pray to a big god,
As I kneel in a big church.
Big time, I’m on my way I’m making it.
So much larger than life.
And my heaven will be a big heaven,
And I will walk through the front door.
The Southern Baptists have been self-righteous hypocrites for as long as they have been in existence. They stick out their chins and beat their chests and talk about how everyone, except them, are going to hell. Truth is, they are hayseed idiots who don’t know history, science, or much of anything. They are rednecks who don’t their asses from a hole in the ground. Their traveling salvation show religion was born from the bowels of ignorance and intolerance. So, their new found object of hate–the gays–is nothing new. They’ve just found a new group to pick on. In the meantime, most of those who lay in their churches are a bunch of gossiping, adultering, divorcing, dumbasses who think going to church three times a week and listening to Bro. Billy Bob spout his hate is going to get them a better life after they’re dead. It is a sick, pathetic way of life. Glad I got out years ago.
only homosexual attempt to draw parallels between racism and atrocities against black folks, and open disdain for homo-sexual activities and lifestyle- how stupid is that ? black folks should resent any white homo-sexual attempting to make such a specious comparison
although most discrimination may be undesirable, let’s not lumo black folks with white homo-sexual engaging in deviant sexual acts such as sodomy with the same gender male !
that’s outrageous ! that’s likesaying black folks are deviant as well, which is STUPID
homo-sexuals are always trying to ally their ’cause’ with the cause of BLACKS or other RACIAL minorities in the US
homo-sexuals are called queer for a reason, but we certainly don’t label a race as ‘queer’, or ‘gay’ ! what’s so damn ‘gay’ about aberrant homo-sexual behavior which by definition is contrary to natural order of the human specices’ reason for living and procreating ?
Shekel, your freak show routine is losing steam, better pick it up a notch, goofball.
Anon-
So what happens when a black homosexual makes the comparison which many have and continue to do? I believe that then allows anyone to employ the comparison.
Interesting- yet not surprising- that in the same post where you reference the criminal nature of discrimination you also note support of discrimination by employing the word “most” instead of “all”. Your posts continue to reflect deep seated intolerance, a lack of education and bigotry.
Anonymous:
We’ve heard that rhetorical dodge for way too long. If someone isn’t granted their full rights because of law and the tyranny of the majority, it’s a civil rights issue. It was then. It is now. Period. End of sentence.
On this one, as is often the case, you’re willing to swallow a camel and choke on a gnat.
Indeed, shekel has consistently criticized black Memphians for being unsophisticated, ignorant, prejudiced and backwards. Yet now he joins hands with backwardness and ignorance to ostracize and slur another entire group of people and somehow make a warped common cause with black people as a group. Queers??? Why don’t you just break out the N-bomb, you bigot.
Interesting article. The Bible says that if all the words of Jesus were written the whole world could not contain them. I suppose that would be true of most of us. Just because Jesus never mentioned homosexuality does not mean He did not speak about it. remember also that the Bible is the inspired Word of God. That means that all of it is important. God does not change…He says so. WE do change and so does our interpretation of the Bible. I am not sure if that means we interpreted it wrong before and are gradually getting it right or if it means we won’t until we are taken out of the world by death or rapture (if you believe in such a thing). We are in a sinful world and we are in a sinful state..even saved. One day the truth will be revealed to us. In the meantime I guess we do the best we can. I think one thing for us to remember is that as Christians we are to live in the world but not be of the world. It seems that today we excuse all sin and will not call sin sin because we do not want to offend anyone. I am not sure how God wants us to interpret homosexuality. It seems to be called sin in every case….and if we can excuse it by reinterpreting it, why not excuse all sin by reinterpretation? Why not say there is no SIN, no need for salvation? That seems to be the direction society has led us.
The Bible is sacred, and as we said, it is written within the culture and the times in which its authors lived. And when you consider the words of Jesus, do you also consider the ones that were added with translations and do you also consider the ones that were written with significant time between them. Even concepts of God have changed over the centuries, so the platitudes are comforting emotionally but they are intellectually shallow.
But most of all, do you really think that Jesus would side with Gaines? Here was a man who spent his time with the outcasts of his society calling for justice and love. So, we’re to believe that He would today be castigating our gay friends. Not hardly.
There is plenty of sin in the world, and intolerance and injustice and hatred are chief among them. That too we learned from the life of Christ.
PS: We have for centuries excused “sins” as defined in the Bible by reinterpreting them.
Don’t you think God knew we would advance to where we are now? Do you think we are as advanced as God is? Do you think there is such a thing as sin? If so, when is it right to call it sin? Is adultery a sin? Lying? Fornication? Stealing? Why not re-examine those as well? What is it we need salvation for? I think Jesus would tell gay people to go and sin no more. Maybe I am wrong. Maybe everything I was taught is wrong. I do not know what the right answers are. I am stuck in my mindset and beliefs and try to be open to other opinions…but it is hard to do so. I read John Boswell’s book and while he made some great arguments I had a hard time accepting his views.
I think Jesus would indeed tell gay people to go and sin no more and his words would have nothing to do with their sexuality but the virtues, attitudes, and values that bring to their lives and to their communities. Thanks for your comments.
As for me, it’s not that everything that I was taught was wrong, but the preoccupation with sexuality and casting it in largely negative terms left numerous people, particularly youth, confused and with the notion that being judgmental is part of the exercise of their faith.
Theological discussions aside (and they are interesting) the question remains: what difference does it make what the Bible says in regards to the civil rights of a definable group of people? Suppose I agree that homosexuality IS a sin before God. So what. Why should that have anything to do with gay people having the right to not be fired from their jobs for being gay?
Bellevue, stay out of partisan politics or forfeit your non-profit status. And I say that to any other churches, left or right, if they choose to dirty their hands by backing specific candidates or parties.
packrat…I agree with your post 🙂
packrat: Thanks for cutting to the chase. It’s why we think that government’s only business is to issue civil unions. Marriage is a religious ceremony so churches can do what is consistent with their Biblical interpretations, but this is not a theocracy and we should resist efforts to make us one.
Amen.
I am sickened by people who relegate sin as a ‘mis-step’ or a lifestyle choice.
Equating the trials and difficulties of African Americans in this American society with trying to ‘legitimize’ homosexulaity as being congruent to the purpose of heterosexuality is INSANE.
ANY fool understands the purpose of genders (2) in the first place.
If homosexuals dried up and blew away tomorrow, human life would continue as designed in the first place. They are despensible in the equation of furtherace of the human race as a species..
DUH
Try some Pepto Bismal if you’re feelign ill, shekel.
Anonymous:
It’s a free country so we’re sure you’re free to continue to misinterpret what the Bible says, to continue to believe that any issue where people are denied full rights as American is not prima facie a civil rights issue, and you are free to completely show your ass with impunity. If you have something constructive to contribute to a real conversation, please do. Otherwise, you just make us realize how critical it is to improve our educational attainment in Memphis.
I find it odd that article about Steve Gaines calling him out for his beliefs, would act as if it’s OK. I believe the Bible teaches us that if you have a problem with someone then go and talk to them… The issue of Sodom and Gomorrah and its destruction has every bit to do with the PRACTICE of homosexuality. You could also add the sin of pride, injustices, and unlawfulness and so on. When I read things that are published such as this I am reminded of all the junior high school students who constantly ask is ____ a sin, or how far can I go before I sin. I find it odd that more and more people are looking for loopholes throughout scripture. Sodom and Gomorrah is mentioned throughout the Bible (2Peter 6-10, Ezekiel 16:47-50, Luke 10:10-12, Jeremiah 23:14-15, Isaiah 1:9-11, Isaiah 3:9, Jeremiah 23:14-15). The bible never tells me not to smoke crystal meth or crack rock so can I do these things? Now don’t get me wrong, I do think it’s not right that PRACTICE of homosexuality has been singled out by many in the church. The point is we are born into this world with a sinful nature, and we have two choices to make. We can choose to follow God through the path laid our in scripture, or we can simply choose to follow after our own desires. The practice of homosexuality was part of the ancient cultures and regularly practiced. That’s why Paul wrote “do not conform to the pattern of this world.” Christians were to be different and so were the Jewish people. In today’s culture we associate intimacy with sexual relationships, but you can have an intimate close relationship without being sexual. You can have a deep love for someone and not be involved in a sexual relationship. If someone is dealing with homosexual desires then a choice has to be maid, to follow God or after my own desires. Christianity was meant to be lived in community with one another. You could make the argument that homosexuals will not know what it’s like to be in a loving covenant relationship with a partner. This should not be an issue, because this person should be able to find a loving community in the church who will support them in times of loneliness, and also times of temptation when they want to give in. There is a big difference between homosexuality and the practice of homosexuality. Being a homosexual is not a sin, but the practice of homosexuality is a sin. You can do the scriptural gymnastics all day long, but the bible is clear, and Sodom & Gomorrah is an example of God’s judgment on a group of people. I have several issues with the argument posted by Smart City Memphis. The first is the demeaning of scripture. What I mean is the attempt to shoot holes in the bible so I can change it to what I want it to say, and in that way Smart City Memphis is as wrong as the people who used the Bible to enslave people. The issue of homosexuality is in no way even close to the issues of African American people and their struggle today. African American’s are still struggling because of issues from slavery, and some have been able to rise above, but there are many who still come from generations of poverty. Comparing homosexuality to slavery is a terrible injustice to slavery. The issue of slavery was an issue in the church as well as a political issue. The country was divided on the issue and so did the church. Naturally the southern churches chose to be pro slavery. This did not make the issue right, but it is important to note that slavery in the Bible is not the same slavery of the civil war. Slaves in the civil war did not have a chance of freedom because they were bought and sold. I also hear the argument that God made me this way. Which points back to our sinful nature, and we have to choose. The child molester and pedophile are also born with those desires as well. There is a choice to be made we can serve God or go after our own desires. I’m not letting the church off the hook in this matter either. The church needs to encourage celibacy among people struggling with homosexual tendency, and also should be surrounding them in community and addressing their specific needs. Holidays and birthdays can be a lonely time for someone living a single lifestyle. I believe a good church community can help people struggling with homosexual desires. You never know surrounding someone struggling with these issues over time may lead to the restoration of heterosexual desires. As long as we believe in the healing power of Jesus Christ then there is hope for everyone who sins.
I really didn’t buy what that last anon said until the end. The DUH really drove his point home.
smurphy: Thanks for your explanation. With all due respect, it feels like you had an opinion in search of a justification. We disagree completely with your Biblical interpretation. If you are truly interested in learning more, go back to the original text context. As they said, text without context is pretext.
Reads like a promo for Love In Action. Or maybe a Ted Haggard sermon.
PS: If slavery in the Bible is not the same as slavery in the Civil War, we’re back to our point: homosexuality in the Bible is nothing like today. Again, if you’re going to give context when you see fit to do it, you should consider context to everything.
smurphy:
Have you ever read other interpretations of the same verses you’re hanging your hat on? Or are you comfortable in your superiority on this issue? There are so many rebuttals to almost every sentence that you have written, but I won’t bother to reply to each. The question is the one packrat put out there. OK, so you believe what you believe. Why should your religious beliefs interfere with fair treatment by a government that gay people pay taxes to have but are second class citizens?
“packrat: Thanks for cutting to the chase. It’s why we think that government’s only business is to issue civil unions. Marriage is a religious ceremony so churches can do what is consistent with their Biblical interpretations, but this is not a theocracy and we should resist efforts to make us one.” (SCM)
I thought the above response was the point of the post as agreed to by several others. The Bible’s sins are for organized religions to determine, not the government. If government and religion decide that murder is wrong, then ok, but the issue of Gay marriage should be decided only by churches. Government has no business passing laws with respect to marriage, only civil unions that establish partnership charters, health care roles, inheritance, dissolution,etc. to protect the rights of individuals involved – heterosexual or homosexual. While there is often overlap, government’s regulations and the church’s prohibition against sins are not the same.
Our society’s laws are not dictated by the Bible. What the Bible says or doesn’t say on this topic is irrelevant. The reliance on the Bible to deny people their basic civil rights is a crutch; if you can say “the bible tells me so” you don’t have to craft a legitimate argument
Thanks, everyone. Interesting conversation.
@Frank
My issue is not with state rights of gay people. That is a state issue, my issue is the practice of homosexuality (not being) is a sin.
As far as rights go I agree with the views of Tony Campolo. Marriage is an institution of the church not the state. People of the church should get married in the church. The state should have civil unions for people who want enter into a covenant relationship.
And I have spent many hours reading commentaries from different views. Homosexual relationships were more common during the Roman Empire than today. Yes there were male and female temple prostitutes where people could attempt to please the various gods of the day. Which is why Paul addressed the issues of sexual immoralities. The practice of homosexuality is the same today as it would during the time of Paul and Jesus.
Slavery was different because people had a way out. Slavery was more of a matter of debt, and when the debts were paid or seven years the slaves would be set free. The slave could even choose to remain with their master; hence Paul’s use of the words Bond Servant. African American’s of the 1700’s and 1800’s never had away out unless they escaped or died.
of course the practice of homosexual acts is a sin (according to many many holy texts and belief systems) THAT’s THE POINT !
But HOMOsexuals want to bend, twist and distort this axiom according to many many faiths..including Islam mind you and eastern religions
the fact that HOMOsexual activities have taken place throughout history does not do a damn thing for its legitimacy
Legitimate it’s not, and society and families need not embrace, endorse or even accept it as somehow ‘on par’ with the purpose of heterosexuality
Similarly, HOMOsexuals are free to actually believe whatever they wish, or pretend anything they wish
some people in society will still assert that their overwrought ‘insistance’ is a HOAX
it’s snake oil at the core, and many Chritians and Jews and Moslems treat it that way, and it’s their right to dispute any notion of legitimacy of HOMOsexual conduct and HOMOsexual activities
I firmly agree, it’s the conduct, not the person which is participating in ‘sin’, although it’s hard to separate the two ! it’s aberrant behavior
All any reasonable person should do is read and acknowledge in what activities these HOMOsexual people engage. It’s plainly aberrant to say the minimum. It’s un-natural to be precise. Why must all in society embrace or accept such activity ?? No, we don’t have to embrace it, we don’t have to accept it as ‘normal’, ‘holy’, orr anything else. Many may consider it disgusting, and vile.
Just because many may consider HOMOsexual acts as vile, it doesn’t necessarily mean the individual is a lost soul.
If you noticed over the past 20 years however, many HOMOsexuals have been on their own crusade not for equal rights under the law, but for society’s embrace and legitimacy on par with the purpose of a man and a woman in the first place.
It’s not on par with the purpose of a relationship with one man and one woman. Most any educated fool will understand that assertion. It will NEVER be on PAR..and that seems to irritate the hell out of some HOMOsexuals.
Their argument is not convincing or true, no matter how loud they seem to protest. That is obviusly very very FRUSTRATING for most of the homosexuals.
Sorry, nature will not be changed …..period
Homosexuals deserve society’s embrace and legitimacy on par with anyone else. And for the first time, a majority of Americans agree. There are more sexualities than the two that you mention. The need to feel superior to other people runs deep in human nature, as you prove again, but in the end, it’s this: why does your belief deserve to get translated into government policy instead of the majority who want democracy and freedom to extend to every American? In the end, tyranny of the minority by the majority is always subject to excess, hatred, and scapegoating, and that was the essence of this post.
Anonymous: We deleted your comments because they are intentionally trying to be offensive and we’re just tired of your regular childish rants. If you have something new to say, please do.
I think he’s a closet case himself.
If he’s who I think he is, T.V., he’s defintely a closet case.
closet case ? LOL…..nope, sorry to disappoint you, and you have no idea “who” I am anyway ! LOL
We may not know your name but believe me, we know exactly who you are.